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Facebook Drama with Dana Taylor

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Some FaceBook junkfood for your brain….

 

Dana Lane Taylor 

Cristan, who are the “separatists” that would be mad that this passed? I want to know so I can call them mean names. BTW, you deal with “facts” so I imagine you have a list who have condemned this. http://www.transadvocate.com/crowing-over-progress.htm


Cristan Williams

Well, to start with… you.

Are you not frustrated that HUD uses the term “transgender” in a manner consistent with the English language? Or, are you happy that HUD uses this term in a way that’s inclusive of you? Does that not violate the internet meme which predicts that as long as the term “transgender” exists in its present form (inclusive), civil rights progress can’t be made?

Are you happy about this HUD scenario…

… since a woman’s shelter would not be allowed to refuse her?
Didn’t your buddy Cathy “sex not gender” Brennan refute “Making Shelters Safe for Transgender Evacuees” saying that it was:
a willful disregard of the concerns about female safety in the name of so-called “gender equality” – constitutes an unconscionable position for any organization that seeks to promote social justice, let alone organizations that claim to represent females. Female needs and vulnerabilities deserve representation and serious consideration in all matters that compromise the boundaries of sex-segregated space.
Both you and she seem to consistently choose to not grasp that the problem is rapists, not people who have a penis. Aren’t you the one who pushes the lie that transgender = man who wears panties on his head so that he can sexually abuse women? Aren’t you the one who cherry picks data for the likes of Bennan and right-wingers who want to claim that non-transsexual MTF trans people = rape risk? Why don’t you have a twin page to your “panties-on-head-sexual-abuse-page” wherein you include stuff like this…

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-who-disguised-herself-as-a-boy-752004

I mean, if you can find a small sample of men in various states of crossdress and hold them out to be examples of the overall MTF transgender population, why not do the same for the FTM population? Or is it only non-transsexual MTFs who are worthy of your smear campaign?

How well does it sit with you that if a non-transsexual MTF trans person (even with visible facial hair) shows up at a women’s shelter, she must be housed? Is that what you’ve been arguing for all this time and I just missed it? You’ve actually supported non-transsexual trans rights all along and in no way acted to relegate those non-transsexual trans rights as being a lower priority than transsexual rights?

You’re happy that non-transsexual MTFs will be housed by women’s shelters? You’re happy that non-transsexual and transsexual rights were seen as being equally valid in the face of right-winger rape hype and bathroom memes? You’re happy with HUD’s use of transgender? You will disavow the “as long as transgender exists, progress can’t be made” meme here and now? You’ve stopped conflating terms and cherry picking data for you buddy Cathy “penis = rape” Brennan?

No?

[Cristan, who are the “separatists” that would be mad that this passed]

Then why would you of all people ask this question?


Dana Lane Taylor

Of course I am frustrated by the use of transgender to include me. However, you are being deceptive in your article. You made it sound like all separatists hate the idea that transgender people get protections.

“Aren’t you the one who pushes the lie that transgender = man who wears panties on his head so that he can sexually abuse women?”

Of course you are referring to http://www.myinterwebz.net/men-in-female-spaces/. Cristan, once again, this page includes MEN, not necessarily men who are considered crossdressers or transvestites. The list just so happens to include some who have worn women’s clothing to invade women’s privacy. I know this really pisses you off because you told me that a male crossdresser can be considered a transgender woman.

FtM transsexuals are not my concern when it comes to protections for women. My activism focuses on women’s issues.

I support rights and protections for ALL in employment.
I support rights and protections for ALL in housing.
I support rights and protections for ALL in PA (excluding sex-segregated spaces for females).

“Cristan, who are the “separatists” that would be mad that this passed”

Absolutely misleading to the point it is a lie. You have no problem with outright lying. I am not talking about just opinions. You have published outright lies about me in the past.

http://www.myinterwebz.net/2012/02/21/cristan-williams-and-her-non-facts/


Cristan Williams

Misleading? Did you say “misleading”?

[I know this really pisses you off because you told me that a male crossdresser can be considered a transgender woman.]

Provide me the quote wherein I state that all types of people who are labeled “crossdressers” are transgender women.

Misleading you say?

[Cristan, who are the “separatists” that would be mad that this passed?]

[I support rights and protections for ALL in PA (excluding sex-segregated spaces for females).]

Would that also include HUD funded women’s shelters?

[ You made it sound like all separatists hate the idea that transgender people get protections. ]

Are you really trying to make a rhetorical absolutist argument? That’s your debate strategy? Since there might be some separatist somewhere who’s glad that non-transsexual MTF transgender people must be served by women’s shelter, the entire point of the article is moot? Again, I ask you… Misleading? Did you say “misleading”?

[Absolutely misleading to the point it is a lie. You have no problem with outright lying. I am not talking about just opinions. You have published outright lies about me in the past. http://www.myinterwebz.net/2012/02/21/cristan-williams-and-her-non-facts/]

Are you claiming that you never suggested that non-op transsexuals are men? Are you claiming that you never referred to specific non-op transsexuals as males? Are you going to claim that you never suggested that MTF crossdress pose a danger to women and should be bared from sex-segregated spaces? Again, I ask you… Misleading? Did you say “misleading”?

So to be clear:

– You ARE NOT, in fact, happy with HUD developments.

– You HAVE NOT disavowed the “as long as transgender exists, progress can’t be made” meme.

– You WILL NOT stop cherry picking data to be used by the anti-equality nuts.

– You WILL NOT apply the same fallacious cherry picking tactics to FTMs; you reserve that special attention for non-transsexual “transgender” people only.

– You WILL NOT stop supporting the meme that non-TS trans folk pose a rape risk.

– You DO admit that you aren’t concerned with the equality of some trans folk; that you’re out for #1: [FtM transsexuals are not my concern when it comes to protections for women. My activism focuses on women’s issues. ]

Nah… but you’re for equal rights for (in caps) ALL!!!!!!!*
*Some exclusions apply. Offer not valid in all states.

Again, I ask you… Misleading? Did you say “misleading”?

BTW… You still HAVE NOT provided a list of just 10 real-world examples where protections against discrimination based upon gender identity and expression allowed abusers to circumvent laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance.

Debate me on Blog TV. Lets have a “face to face” conversation about all of this. Lets put our arguments out there in the marketplace of ideas and allow folks to decide for themselves whose argument is full of BS. Debate me.


Dana Lane Taylor blah blah blah blah blah blah…apples, oranges, grapefruits..blah blah blah blah blah blah

Dana Lane Taylor Don’t forget, I am an “opinion leader”. hehe… 🙂

Cristan Williams ‎

[blah blah blah blah blah blah…apples, oranges, grapefruits..blah blah blah blah blah blah. Don’t forget, I am an “opinion leader”. hehe… 🙂]

Yes, you are… And a fine example of the rational underpinnings of separatism. That’s precisely why I want to debate you live on Blog TV.

http://www.cristanwilliams.com/b/2012/02/04/i-hate-separatists/

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Cristan

Cristan Williams is a trans historian and activist. She started one of the first trans homeless shelters and co-founded the first federally funded trans-only homeless program, pioneered affordable healthcare for trans people in the Houston area, won the right for trans people to change their gender on Texas ID prior to surgery, started numerous trans social service programs and founded the Transgender Center as well as the Transgender Archives. Cristan is the editor at the social justice site TransAdvocate.com, is a long-term member and previous chair of the City of Houston HIV Prevention Planning Group, is the jurisdictional representative to the Urban Coalition for HIV/AIDS Prevention Services (UCHAPS), serves on the national steering body for UCHAPS and is the Executive Director of the Transgender Foundation of America.

10 thoughts on “Facebook Drama with Dana Taylor”

  1. These separatists are dogmatic and do not use logic and reasoning skills. They as a whole betray the scientific method by starting off with a result that is sought after and ignores all evidence that points to the contrary, leading all conclusions to be horribly skewed by bias, hatred and bigotry

    They are not alone in this, but they are some of the worst offenders.

  2. I pretty much track only how Dana refers to gender me — I just don’t have the time to track how she genders others much.

    So with that in mind, she’s used surgery to define me as functionally defined me as male here, and implicitly defined me as a “eunuch” in the comment thread for my recent column Trans Women As ‘Super-gays’.

    I could easily hate her and lash out at her for those comments, but that seems so energy draining — and just would keep the circle of personally vitriolic dialog going.

    I read her stating here:

    If you are transsexual and identify as transgender? Shame on you for fighting against our rights as women.

    And I believe she likely holds this view at least in part because she loathes being a transsexual:

    I don’t find being transsexual cool one bit. It is a horrible condition. It is a crime against humanity. How can that be celebrated as being cool?

    When confronted with the question — Do you consider non-op transsexual women to be women? — Dana won’t answer. If she answers that question with a yes, then she denies that she’s a woman at this point in your life. If she answers it with a no, then she’s forced to embrace that she isn’t a woman until she has a vaginoplasty — a vaginoplasty we know she needs to be comfortable in her own skin and to fully be complete as the woman we know she is.

    To answer the question means she has to acknowledge the loathing she has for a body part that she was born with one that separates her from the rest of the community of women — in a sense she has to fully embrace that she’s one of the transsexual people she loathes being. I believe the term for what she’s feeling is referred to as “internalized transphobia.”

    (God knows I’ve worked for years to extricate my own internalized transphobia…I’m still not completely done with that effort.)

    Dana deserves a world where all trans related medical treatments are covered as medical necessities by healthcare providers — instead of living in the world where many, if not sometimes all, of the treatments are considered medically unnecessary. If we’re decent human beings we, as a combined population of what the WPATH SOC describes as the population of transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people, should work to create that kind of world for those who come after us.

    He, we all share the same goal that not only should all appropriate medical treatments be available to trans people, but should be covered by all of our health insurance plans. That we’re mired as a population of transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people over self-identifications and terminology — to the detriment of that common goal — is in my mind the real shame. Where we disagree we should do it without personal vitriol; where we disagree over terminology we need to figure out away to get the hell over it and work together towards achieving our common goals.

    However, I don’t anticipate the population of transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people getting the hell over anything terminology related in the near future. As you’ve pointed out, Cristan, we’re still having the same conversations between vaginoplasty surgical essentialists and other trans people that we’ve been having since Harry Benjamin first worked to identify transsexualism and treat the condition appropriately. And too, we’re still living with the damage done to trans community by the sex and gender norming perpetrated on community by the university run gender identity clinics of the sixties to the eighties — we still live with the consequences of groups of people deciding for others who is and who isn’t adequately trans.

    IFGE’s past president Dallas Denny was so right when she said we have a strong tendency to eat our own.

    I know I quote Martin Luther King Jr. a lot, but I took something life-changing away from this quote from him:

    There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies.

    I don’t hate Dana at all. However, I am saddened and frustrated by Dana and her transsexual-not-transgender-identified peers — they’re so focused on the dividing aspects of self-identifications and surgeries to the detriment of embracing the human dignity of all of us…to the detriment of creating the kind of world where all of medical treatments they’ve achieved or desire for themselves, and/or are currently receiving (i.e. in the case of hormones), are included in the healthcare insurance plans for all of us. What a damn waste.

  3. Well, the crazy person took down her site again. There’s a message that says:

    Taking A Break
    By danalane | March 13, 2012 | Uncategorized

    Being an activist can become so time consuming that you have little time for things you need to take care of in your own life. I have a lot of things I need to accomplish to finish my transition as well as need to focus on computer security. Too many things to accomplish.

    So, for now, I am redirecting all myinterwebz traffic to this blog.

    Okay, here’s the problem. She calls herself an activist and yet she just deactivates and reactivates herself from society whenever she sees fit. That is not a true activist. You don’t just blast people and then disappear. It’s the sign of a coward. She goes up and down more times than a mental patient.

    This “silencing her voice” thing that she’s so concerned about… did she ever think that nobody really cares about her voice to begin with? The reason why we’re all bitching about her craziness is because we can’t believe someone could be so stupid. She has a college degree (I think); she should use it.

    Autumn and Cristan, you girls keep rocking doing what you’re doing. The feeble-minded, crazy Danas of the world will never be cool like you two.

    1. Well, she brought her site back up for a short while which shows just how easy it is to manipulate her. And now she has it down again and a link going to a Wikipedia entry for transphobia. Quite honestly this is the most useful information she has provided to the general public so far so I commend her for doing that. It is good to have opinions but not when it hurts others who are finding themselves. I’m sure she has had a long time to find herself and she may still be finding herself. It is not easy to be trans and to have someone put down others because of how they choose to label themselves is very wrong.

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